Curse

dagrdagaz · Feb 20, 2011, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Derv enchants that are not meant to be removed prematurely, like Faithful Intervention.

As said in title, change them (or only Faithful Intervention) into a stance.

LostThing · Feb 20, 2011, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Isn't this just easily resolved by actually paying attention to the order of enchantments you cast?
Now you actually have to pay some attention to keep enchants on you that have no teardown effect...play a bit smarter I would say.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Feb 20, 2011, 12:04 PM // 12:04

/notsigned

1. this being enchantment has a good thing too: if removed, you are healed
other than that, yes, you gotta watch what derv enchants you use first, and in what order

2. make this as stance, and you cant use other stances, isnt that bad, instead of good?

also, you forgot 1 thing: there are warriors (more in HM, and not just warriors) that remove stances, so its not gonna work unless it becomes a skill, but that would make it too much, i think, and you cant remove it if you want to (unless you use a norn blessing o_O)

so, no thx

Xenomortis · Feb 20, 2011, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Faithful Intervention has one use and that's as a permanent enchantment. I don't think a permanent stance would be as useful.

Way2dead · Feb 20, 2011, 12:40 PM // 12:40

1. Activate Faithful Intervention
2. Use a cancel stance i.e. dash/enchanted haste etc.
3. Congratulations, you are healed

Or you can make it just a skill, no enchant/stance, just a skill if you really want, then you can't remove it.

ogre_jd · Feb 20, 2011, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostThing

Isn't this just easily resolved by actually paying attention to the order of enchantments you cast?
Now you actually have to pay some attention to keep enchants on you that have no teardown effect...play a bit smarter I would say.

By "paying attention" you of course mean "don't bring any skills that remove Dervish enchantments because you'll have to live with them sitting on your bar and doing nothing for most of each fight".

Xenomortis · Feb 20, 2011, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

By "paying attention" you of course mean "don't bring any skills that remove Dervish enchantments because you'll have to live with them sitting on your bar and doing nothing for most of each fight".

Eh?
If I cast Faithful Intervention and then any other enchantment, the second enchantment will be removed first.

LostThing · Feb 20, 2011, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

By "paying attention" you of course mean "don't bring any skills that remove Dervish enchantments because you'll have to live with them sitting on your bar and doing nothing for most of each fight".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Eh?
If I cast Faithful Intervention and then any other enchantment, the second enchantment will be removed first.

This, the enchantment cast as second will be removed first, and thats why you can take enchantment removal skills just fine as long as you actually pay a bit attention to your casting order.

MithranArkanere · Feb 20, 2011, 02:37 PM // 14:37

O_o

Mate, the builds I'm running now have 2..3 scythe attacks that tear down enchantments, 2..3 Flash enchantments, and then 2..4 other skills.
I'm not even thinking about using attack that do not tear down now.

So far, I had no problem with keeping the enchantments I want on me, and I kept using the teardowns as soon as they were ready, while hapily dealing bleeding, burning, cracker armor, weakness, deep wound and some other conditions, and also removing stances and enchantments.

My, aren't dervishes are fun now!

If you are having trouble, then you are probably doing something wrong.

RedDog91 · Feb 20, 2011, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Faithful Intervention has one use and that's as a permanent enchantment. I don't think a permanent stance would be as useful.

Perma-stance would be abused.
All the skills that require a stance now have a permanent crutch.

LifeInfusion · Feb 20, 2011, 03:09 PM // 15:09

If you make this into a stance then you can't use Heart of fury or Pious Fury. Unless you're running Onslaught then you have no IAS.

Captain Bulldozer · Feb 20, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I'll agree that having enchants in the derv line that specifically do not synergize with the tear-down mechanic is a kinda bad idea from a design perspective. But I, for one, am one of those of the opinion that the tear down mechanic is not especially fun to play. I like the idea of building your character up and doing more damage because of it far more than being able to do what used to be normal damage by sac'ing things like your enchants. So let m say to the OP that I totally sympathize with your suggestion.

However, making skills of this type into perma stances would not be at all a good way to fix this situation. I say this for a variety of reasons, many of which have been described above by other posters. I would, instead, suggest that the update was way overboard with the tear down mechanic and that it should be scaled back (frankly I'd have loved to see it go away entirely, but I realize not everyone feels this way). Currently well over half the scythe mastery skills force a tear-down (including both elites) and many of those that don't have recharges that are far longer than would be viable in play realistically. The adrenaline skills are mostly unaffected by this, but are still a bit slow... scythes at 1 attack per 1.5 sec (before IAS of course) still build adrenaline at a fairly slow rate compared to swords or axes, and the adrenaline costs are in general higher than sword or axe requirements. It would be nice to see adjustments made so as to not force players to use the tear-down mechanic quite so much in my opinion. At any rate, we'll have to wait and see how the situation develops. Good hunting.

Xenomortis · Feb 20, 2011, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

Perma-stance would be abused.
All the skills that require a stance now have a permanent crutch.

Such as? Standing Slash? I can't think of any others.
Really the few item bonuses that are boosted by in a stance are the only things that will benefit, but that's no different to how it currently is with the enchantment mods and Faithful Intervention as it is now; except there are a lot more skills that benefit from being under an enchantment than from being under a stance.

Really, making this skill a stance would be a weird nerf to what's already a fairly useless skill.

ogre_jd · Feb 20, 2011, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostThing

This, the enchantment cast as second will be removed first, and thats why you can take enchantment removal skills just fine as long as you actually pay a bit attention to your casting order.

Yes, but then you're stuck not using your enchantment removal skills, so they sit on your bar being useless, which is especially bad if you've got high-speed offense like Wounding Strike.

Verene · Feb 20, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

/notsigned

Pay attention to what you're doing and don't be lazy and it won't be a problem. I'm using teardown combos with Vow of Strength and not once have I removed VoS on accident - it's as simple as checking the monitor and casting an instant-cast flash enchantment before using a removal skill.

Not hard at all, and if you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't be using teardown skills.

Xenomortis · Feb 20, 2011, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Yes, but then you're stuck not using your enchantment removal skills, so they sit on your bar being useless, which is especially bad if you've got high-speed offense like Wounding Strike.

Then simply don't use Faithful Intervention. It's not really worth a slot anyway.

*lemming* · Feb 20, 2011, 07:36 PM // 19:36

The only reason why anyone ever used Faithful Intervention was to power things like the old Wounding Strike. Its inherent effect is not very useful.

Cuilan · Feb 20, 2011, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Faithful Intervention is pretty useless since other professions are better than the old D/N Order of Pain heros and humans have Eternal Aura.

Rites · Feb 20, 2011, 09:47 PM // 21:47

sounds to me like just bad player mechanics

solution: LEARN how to properly set up your enchantments and how to properly remove the ones you want (ie... use faithful intervention as soon as you spawn and other enchants later) OR just remove the skill from your bar since you don't seem to understand how to properly use it anyway

/not signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

The only reason why anyone ever used Faithful Intervention was to power things like the old Wounding Strike. Its inherent effect is not very useful.

that was one... but i used it to warn me when i was in over my head, if i ever saw faithful intervention disappear and there were no enchant removals around, it meant i was in trouble

Kojima · Feb 21, 2011, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostThing

Isn't this just easily resolved by actually paying attention to the order of enchantments you cast?
Now you actually have to pay some attention to keep enchants on you that have no teardown effect...play a bit smarter I would say.

Totally agree. Really this is not much of a problem at all.